Sign in | Log in

Linguine Linguistics

Linguine Linguistics

Johnny Meatballs DeCarlo (November 11, 2013)

Continuing the "Italglish" Discussion

Tools

My last blog entitled, “How Italian-American Are You: What’s The Criteria?” received a lot of attention and I got multiple letters from a cross section of fans (and critics) who wanted to weigh in on the subject.


I had teachers who told me that using any form of “slang” (or dialects) was “bastardizing” any formal language—Italian or otherwise. I had older folks who thanked me for giving their lingo a level of “credibility” and made them again embrace the slang speech after shying away from it due to the “PC” crowd discouraging its usage in recent years. I had some younger people writing to me who said that they changed the way they spoke depending on the scenario—meaning when they are among well-educated or well-off Italian-Americans, they try their best to speak “properly” but among friends they are fine with dropping vowels and speaking more “goomba.”

 

I find the whole topic to be so intriguing, and it really does have many social components and linguistic levels. While I did not think that other nationalities face these issues, they kind of do if you really delve deeper. I was listening to a radio show where the African-American host was discussing “The Cosby Show” and how there were many African-Americans in the ‘80s who actually protested the content because it wasn’t an “accurate depiction of a black family.”

 

The host explained that because the “normal” black family was not a family consisting of a doctor and lawyer as the parental figures, and living in a nice house and wearing wool sweaters and speaking eloquently was not considered “street.” But he went on to say that there really is no “right” or “wrong,” and we are all different, regardless of race or ethnicity, not all African-Americans use street lingo, one can be professional but not a “sell out.” This is all so very complicated, because it veers off into the territory of stereotypes and prejudices, and although many factors get examined when one is talking about comparing one group/class of people to another, beyond how that person dresses or where they live or anything else—it seems first and foremost how they speak is judged first.

 

This all goes beyond a simple study on language and pronunciations, it’s more a society thing which relates to our value system as a people—a “progression” should not be accomplished through trying to Xerox copy how one pronounces words to not get “judged.” But rather all the different pronunciations should be respected and given credence so we do not judge. That’s all I was trying to do with my last blog, to simply say by learning why a word of phrase is said a certain way we should understand and accept the reasoning. Respect it and move past it, not judge, chastise and try and change it. A friend who sells gourmet gelato said that in no circumstances is it OK to mispronounce a word and I proposed a question which was if someone from a non-Italian area “mispronounced” the name of a gelato flavor, would you be inclined to “correct” them? They may no longer be a customer if they were “corrected.”

 

A great comment sent to me by someone named Tommy is as follows:

None of the languages spoken throughout the regions of Italy are dialects of the Italian language, but in fact, are all naturally developed languages from Latin, including what is known as “formal” Italian. “Formal” Italian is just the dialect used by Dante from Tuscany that, due to the popularity and poetic style of his work, was simply decided by the powers that be to be used as the one Italian that should be taught in schools. It has no more historic claim to be considered “true” Italian than Siciliano, Napolitano, or any other so-called “dialect.” Had Sicilian been chosen, then that would be called "formal Italian" and everything else would be named “dialect.”

 

Now that's some food for thought!

 

Another commenter remarked at how I was highlighting “extremism” and that our ancestors would be rolling over in their graves with either representative I.A. group of this era—the “Jersey Shore” gang or the Renaissance art crowd. I agree one thousand percent. The “everyman,” the regular Joes and Josephines are getting lost in translation, no pun intended and are becoming extinct. These are not the second class citizens, these are the heart and soul of our culture. But despite all the sub-cultures, we are all ONE culture! And I am here to prevent that extinction because I can appeal to both sides of the coin. When you meet me, any preconceived notions will be wiped away. I am a family man and a business man and have high moral character even if I conduct my business through the sometimes silly “character” of Johnny Meatballs.


Maybe it’s because I visited “tourist” spots when I went to Italy, but the second I went into any caffé, eatery or any establishment, it was a known fact that I was an AMERICAN, despite the fact that I am an American of Italian lineage. That doesn’t mean I was treated poorly, quite the contrary, I was welcomed with open arms, very graciously as if I was walking into a relative’s home. So this was before I even opened my mouth, simply by the way I walked and looked...I guess this is more connected to the fact that I was a “New Yorker” visiting Italy and not just an American—we give off this certain aura (no distinction when traveling whether one is a New Jerseyan or a New Yorker, we are lumped into the same bunch and that’s fine.)

 

Anyway, upon engaging in dialogue with the Italians they knew full when when I said “pro-shoot” that I was referring to prosciutto and again were very nice to me. Whether one is dropping the “o” or not from that word, they appreciate the fact that we are at least trying. (Now what they may have said behind my back or if they chuckled after I left I won’t know.) But you know what, that has to do with someone as a person and not someone as a particular ethnic background. I mean that’s like me laughing at someone of Hispanic heritage—my area is highly populated with people of Hispanic background—who may say an English word differently. “Spanglish” is commonly accepted and practiced as mainstream, yet “Italglish” isn't?

 

Again, I don’t like to use the terms “right” and “wrong.” My grandmother from Italy spoke mostly fluent Italian with English mixed in and also the slang words mixed in, me and my cousins all understood her. I have relatives who only speak formal language and my one cousin is an Italian language teacher, but hey, we all get along and respect each others speech patterns. Maybe it is easier among family but not with strangers, even though it should be since we all share the same roots from the boot. My friend Frankie says this is all just a case of Italian “ebonics,” which I found ironic, to reference back to Bill Cosby, who is so very against that. More comedians who embrace it have soared in popularity in recent years, while Cosby's messages seem to be lost on the current demographic.

 

Would it be disingenuous of me to alter my speech based upon a given situation I was in or a slap in the face to my roots? Hey, we all do it. As I hope you notice, I take pride in these blogs containing good grammar and proper punctuation. I have always loved grammar and writing. I don't speak exactly how I write. But you see if I were to walk into my parents' home during Sunday dinner, I'd get a slap if I said “no, pass the ree-caught-uh, NOT the ree-gawt.” Because then I'd be discrediting how that word has been said in my home for years and it would come off as insulting. Now I don't work in a “corporate setting,” I sell meatballs in the streets, but when I did work in an office there was no ricotta talk at all, such a thing was not called into question when the topics are corporate logistics and not language linguistics.

 

 

The only time pronunciations came into play was if we were to order a pizza for example...then my ethnic style was showcased. As this picture illustrates, the white Italian cheese is never MOTTS-A-RELLA as some say. So we as a nationality should not be debating whether dropping the “a” or not is a life or death issue, but rather how saying a word completely and totally different may be the real bastardization. Still, I would never have the audacity to “correct” anyone.

 

I referenced “Jersey Shore” guidos in my last blog and looking back, that show really did do a number on us as a whole as far as the balance of peace within our ethnicity. I personally used hair gel just like Pauly D. on that show long before he displayed it on national TV and won't suddenly shave my head bald because folks may think I may share his wild ways simply because we may share a hairstyle! But a lot of people don't have that kind of confidence and can't take the heat if some stupid person is going to get a bad impression about them if they dress or talk in a certain matter that may not be deemed “proper.”

 

This is especially magnified when one may live in an area that is not populated by other good-hearted cugines who also live in a manner which is reflective of a Christian value system and have to always explain themselves. (We all know the story of the Jersey paisan who traveled to the mid-west and how the people there were automatically thinking Italian-Americans from New Jersey are all Tony Soprano.) For those who still live old school like me, we embrace our peasant roots and don't try to sugarcoat things or whitewash them. I'll reiterate, easier when we are in our element.

 

My all-time favorite “fish out of water” movie, “My Cousin Vinny” showed how a Brooklyn goomba can be smart, witty and win a court case in the deep south. Of course that was a work of fiction, but the idea is reality based. And that was made over 20 years ago but it still carries a real and pertinent message.

 

Perhaps I have been out of the corporate world for too long so I don't really worry about this stuff on a daily basis. But are will still in a world where we are equated to being “less than” because of our vernacular or accent? If that's the case, that's sad, but what's sadder is that within our own ethnic group we are doing that. One day I hope the gaps can be bridged and we can all just break bread together whether we enjoy meatballs and Sunday Sauce/Gravy or some fancy truffle dish. Enough with the nit-picking and the oversensitivity and the grudges and who should be “allowed” to march in our parades or if this actor or that actor is properly reflecting his heritage with whatever role they choose to portray in a film. Basta!

 

But you know what, there will always be a “division” in our heritage like no other and it starts in Italy where the high northerners still look down on the Sicilians. Again, there are a lot of different factors at play, but it always seems to start with language usage and speech patterns. So that's why it's so wacky to me if we argue here in the States about saying “baked ziti” or “ziti al forno” when it's the same concept! If we're going to worry about anything, it should not be whether it's made with mozzarell' or mozzarella but mottz-arella. One thing we can all agree on, it aint apple sauce.


DISCLAIMER: Posts published in i-Italy are intended to stimulate a debate in the Italian and Italian-American Community and sometimes deal with controversial issues. The Editors are not responsible for, nor necessarily in agreement with the views presented by individual contributors.
© ALL RIGHTS RESERVED - RIPRODUZIONE VIETATA.
This work may not be reproduced, in whole or in part, without prior written permission.
Questo lavoro non può essere riprodotto, in tutto o in parte, senza permesso scritto.

I commented on the previous

I commented on the previous post, regarding two extremes. I have no issue with IA from NY-NJ area (where I'm from, NYC) using this "slang" (for lack of a better word, because it's not any Italian dialect... cadence, rhythm, pronunciation, etc. is all off). It's also not Italglish. It's local slang, spoken by far removed generations after an extended game of telephone. My only issues with it are -- this bloated notion that it's somehow a dialect, and more importantly the false belief that throwing out words in this slang suggest some authenticity. At the end of the day, though, it seems a small issue. The bigger issue for IA is our dying communities and that most of us know little about our community's history. So, who cares how you want to say ricotta or mozzarella or prosciutto. Let's talk instead about whether or not you know how to actually make those products from scratch, like the off-the-boat folks did. That's far more interesting and important.

Finally, dialects and Italglish are alive and well (okay, maybe not totally well, but still alive) in many neighborhoods in Brooklyn, Bronx, and Queens where you still have Italian immigrants, those who came to the States in the 1960s/1970s. They speak dialect, and it's not anything like the slang you're highlighting here. They also speak Italglish -- also nothing like the slang you talk about here -- and this is what it (Neapolitan dialect + Italglish) looks like (taken from a Farfariello performance circa 1920, but still the same among later immigrants):

Ne sera dentro na barra americana dove il patrone era americano, lo visco era americano, la birra era americana, ce steva na ghenga de loffari tutti americani: solo io non ero americano; quanno a tutto nu mumento me mettono mmezzo e me dicettono: Alò spaghetti; iu mericano men? No! no! mi Italy men! Iu blacco enze. No, no! Iu laico chistu contri. No, no! Mi laico mio contry! Mi laico Italy! A questa punto me chiavaieno lo primo fait! “Dice: Orré for America!” Io tuosto: Orré for Italy! Un ato fait. “Dice: Orré for America!” Orré for Italy! N’ato fait e n ato fait, fino a che me facetteno addurmentare; ma però, orré for America nun o dicette! Quanno me scietaie, me trovaie ncoppa lu marciepiedi cu nu pulizio vicino che diceva; Ghiroppe bomma! Io ancora stunato alluccaie: America nun gudde! Orré for Italy! Sapete li pulizio che facette? Mi arrestò! Quanno fu la mattina, lu giorge mi dicette: Wazzo maro laste naite? Io risponette: No tocche nglese! “No? Tenne dollari.” E quello porco dello giorge nun scherzava, perché le diece pezze se le pigliaie!…

italiano dialetto

totally great article!

we live in Calabria each spring and fall, and we laugh when we are spoken to in calabrese or napoletano dialect and return their look with a deer in headlights stare, as there's no way we can respond. they kindly begin speaking in italian, and everything's right with the world at that p0int.

for years I studied Italian (conversational) with various native instructors: siciliano, romano, milanese... each pointing out 'real' italian from their dialect. molto interessante.

a friend from Napoli area served in the Italian military and was up for a promotion. He sat in his face to face interview with his superiors and was told that only when he learned to speak proper Italian would he get that promotion. He did, and he did. true story.